EP2: Level Up Your Job Hunt: Career Coaching Insights with Dellyn Lee

In this episode of the Game Industry Job Hunt podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dellyn Lee, a career coach and recruiter from Dellyn Digital. With over nine years of experience in HR, Dellyn brings a unique perspective to the job-hunting process, particularly for those in the gaming industry. 

We started the conversation by discussing Dellyn's innovative approach to career coaching, inspired by the Bartle theory of player types. He explained how he tailors his coaching services based on different player motivations—achievers, killers, socializers, and explorers—drawing parallels between gaming and career paths. 

We delved into practical advice for job seekers, including the significance of having a well-structured resume, and highlighted the importance of using the right keywords and metrics to showcase achievements effectively. He also discussed the role of Applicant Tracking Systems (ATS) and how candidates can optimize their applications to stand out. 

As we wrapped up, Dellyn provided insights into the interview process, stressing the importance of asking thoughtful questions to demonstrate a genuine interest in the role and the company. He shared tips on how candidates can prepare for interviews and what recruiters look for in potential hires. 

This episode is packed with valuable information for anyone navigating the job hunt in the gaming industry. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out, Dellyn's expertise and advice can help you level up your job search strategy. Be sure to check out Dellyn's website for more resources and insights. 

Thanks for tuning in, and I hope you find this episode helpful as you embark on your own game industry job hunt!


Links From This Episode

• Dellyn's Website
• Dellyn on LinkedIn

Highlight Time Stamps

00:02:17 - Player Types in Career Coaching
Dellyn explains the Bartle theory of player types and how it relates to career coaching and job hunting.

00:06:02 - The Role of a Career Coach
Discussion on what a career coach does, including resume audits, writing, and mock interviews.

00:09:41 - Resume Tips for Job Seekers
Dellyn provides advice on structuring resumes and the importance of using metrics to showcase achievements.

00:12:25 - Documenting Achievements
Joe emphasizes the importance of keeping track of metrics and achievements for future job applications.

00:14:09 - Personal Branding and Online Presence
Discussion on the significance of personal branding and maintaining a positive online presence.

00:16:28 - Common Mistakes in the Hiring Process
Dellyn highlights mistakes candidates make, particularly regarding Applicant Tracking Systems (ATS).

00:19:24 - The Importance of Asking Questions in Interviews
Dellyn discusses why candidates should prepare questions for interviews and suggests

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Transcript

0:00

This week on the show we're talking career coaching, resume tips, and more with Dellen Lee of Dellen Digital. Let's do it! Hey, we're back. We're back again. Episode two of the Game Industry Job Hunt podcast. My name is Joe King. Thank you for being with us. I really appreciate it. I think we've got a good show for you this week. We are talking to Dillon Lee of Dillon Digital. Dillon's a career coach and recruiter and has tons of experience in the, in that HR world. And so I decided it would be fun to sort of pick his brain and have him give me all the secrets. that the recruiters don't want you to know, right? Because I'm sure there are a lot of lots of ways to make recruiters jobs easier that they don't want you to know about. So anyway, we're going to get right into that in a second. Before we do, please remember to subscribe or follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, whatever the case may be. Also, you can follow me and the show on LinkedIn and Twitter. Links can be found on GameIndustryJobHunt.com. I have a resources page They're on the website that has all kinds of links that you may find useful. It's basically stuff that I have found useful as I'm job hunting myself, and I want to share it with you, so check it out on GameIndustryJobHunt.com. Okay, so with all that out of the way, let's jump over to my conversation with Dillon Lee of Dillon Digital. Dillon Lee is a job coach with a video game twist. He's got nine plus years of experience in H.R. and tailor services based on player types to help you take down the boss called the job hunt. Dillon, what's going on, man? Thanks for being my first guest Thanks again, Joe. We all got to start from level one, so I'm glad to Absolutely. Yeah. Podcast level one. Here we go. Um, cool. So, you know, uh, you and I got in touch a little bit ago, I'd say a couple months ago, I guess now we've kind of been in contact with each other. It's been really great. And, um, you know, the more I've gotten to know you, the more I'm seeing your, you know, you're doing some really cool things in the coaching. arena, I guess we could say, based around, like I just said in that intro there, you tailor your services based around player types, and I'm using my quote fingers here. Go into Yeah, so basically I was looking up the internet, thinking about what to research, because I love looking into things. And I came across the player types, Bartle theory of player types. And that's this researcher called Bartle, Richard Bartle. He's like our famous game researcher, writer, things like that. And he made this thing called the player types that basically breaks down players within four different types. That's the achievers, and the killers, and they all equate to card suits as well. So from my thinking, I said to myself, being in HR for about nine years and doing a lot of talent acquisition, reaching out to people and things like that, those roles, those suits per se equates to different roles that a person would be good at, like the killers or the clubs. They're basically motivated by confronting and suppressing other players. Think Elden Ring or think fighting games. They're very competitive edge to them. So they could be probably good in sales or You know, socializers think about the social aspect of games, like having clans or even Animal Crossing. Those players like to kind of harbor and have a community-based kind of gameplay. Think about content creators like myself, or maybe community managers, or maybe even HR. Explorers are more of those people that like to go out into the world, explore different worlds like Skyrim, Cyberpunk maybe, or even Breath of the Wild. those players could equate to different roles like travel blog and of course achievers are basically people that like to improve themselves and you know beat their own high scores i.e like any kind of old school um kind of game when it comes to like getting high schools like patman or something like that and just beating their own scores and that could kind of Yeah, that's really cool. That's so interesting. Um, I mean, how did you, how did you get from, you know, we said you've got nine plus years of experience in HR and, and all this, how did you get into, you know, career coaching and sort of finding this method and kind of building Yeah. So that was, that was an interesting process. And, uh, that was last year of October when I kind of sat down one day when I come home from work and I said to myself, you know, I could have all these ideas and I want to kind of implement them. And I kind of sat there for at least two weeks straight just working on a business plan. I just looked up a skeleton of one and I started putting things together and thinking of ideas and I've been writing on my course notepad and going through ideas and then that came into something like this. And that's how I came across the vault of theory of taxonomy. And I even was a little bold. And I reached out to one of my, you know, mentors that I always follow on YouTube and things like that. His name is George Bruno. And my son, basically, he's like a job coach kind of guy for men's coaching. And I reached out to him. And I got invited on to his podcast as well. And how nice to talk about conversion chemistry and stuff like that. And, you know, I That's how I started. I said, let me just make my own company out of this, help people in the video game space and go from there. But it's in any industry though. So gamer, if you're a construction worker and love playing video games, an accountant, an artist, a UX designer, I definitely want to talk to you. If you most definitely love video games, because there's something that we could relate to That's really cool. Yeah. I just, you know, I found recently, and as you know, and I've gone into in the last episode, sort of in the intro episode, I myself am on the game industry job hunt. And that's the reason that I started this podcast, you know, is to sort of bring voices like yours together with others and other resources that I can find and kind of bring that into a one audio package for people where they can sort of listen to the show while they're job hunting, things like that. I've seen a lot of career. and that kind of thing floating around. And I've never really lured that Avenue until meeting you actually. And yeah, I just never, it just never really occurred to me. And I think that the last time I was, I was looking for a job was, um, let's see, 20, like actively looking would be, I mean, 2019. So it's been a while. Um, yeah. It's a hard market too. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, back then I think career coaches were obviously a thing, but now it's a lot more prevalent. And I really do think that a lot more people are thinking, I need to get every advantage I possibly can. Right. Um, so, you know, with that in mind, sort of go through a little bit for those that don't know exactly what a career coach does and you know, why you think someone Yeah, of course. So basically a career coach basically goes through different things, different steps in the interviewing process, the job hunting process. Most people do, you know, resume audits, which is basically looking through your resume and giving you some pointers on what to do kind of thing. Some people like to use as a freebie kind of thing for the entry rates of their other services and whatnot. The next stage from there is, of course, resume writing. Just a disclaimer, there's a lot of ways to write a resume. And you got to make sure you have the right keywords for those set roles kind of thing and not everyone look at those little small things. And then from there is the actual coaching piece like if I know some people that might want to do mock interviews, you know, pretend to be that interviewer and interviewing you so you get that confidence boost. and also those kind of questions to be mindful of, especially those behavioral ones as well. And, you know, basically packaging everything in together when it comes to this. Some people may do YouTube content. I know some people in this space do YouTube content and they post a lot on LinkedIn as well. So take that in consideration. So basically a job coach is getting you from point A to point B, understanding this whole job LinkedIn You know, another funny kind of comparison that I think I made in my own head at least recently. And again, I've talked to a couple, you know, career coaches in the past few weeks, not necessarily in the, in the spirit of working with them or anything, you know, but just sort of getting their thoughts and maybe it was a, you know, free conversation, free consultation. And I, I grabbed it just to chat, you know, that kind of thing. It's a lot like a therapist that's, that is focused on your career. I found it easy to talk to these people, you know, Hey, here's what's going on. Here's what I'm dealing with. Here's what I'm thinking about here, the good things, the bad things. And there was a lot of really good back and forth that reminded me a lot about talking to my therapist, which by the way, is also a great strategy. while we're, while we're on this job industry, uh, or this game industry nightmare that we're all going through, uh, you know, keep mental health in mind and think about a therapist if you think that's right for you. But, um, at any rate, so, so circling back around to your experience, just in HR in general, right? I'm curious cause you know, you mentioned a minute ago the resume tips and, and things people can do on their resume to sort of maximize their chances. What's, what's an example of, What do you think is kind of one thing that somebody could do to their resume that might Yeah, of course. I mean, one of the most solid things I could think of is most definitely having the right structure. If you don't have the right structure in your resume, you're not going to get anywhere. So if you're like, I made a funny resume with Mario, for So so basically I went on my website where you know Mario is applying for a role. Let's just pretend he's applying. He has his resume. His picture in there and everything like that, and he's applying to be a partner. As we all know, he's a great pump. But you come across his resume and you're seeing a lot of different things that's like out of place. He's using different fonts here and there. He has some kind of doctor role that he's been in as well. And he's applying to be a plumber. So this is going to throw off the talent acquisition specialist or a recruiter saying, what? OK, he's applying to this, but he has to be a VC. I don't know where this person's at. Kind of all over the place, huh? So it needs to be very structured to the role that you're applying to and make sure when you're reading through that job description, those keywords, you kind of point out those keywords and make sure they fit into your resume and what you've actually done over time. I'm not saying copy and paste. I'm saying you have to speak upon what you've done. So if you have those skills, that's good. Incorporate into your resume and make sure you speak to it. And one last tip. adding metrics to your resume really helps because you've got to think, you're going through a lot of words and it would be nice to see some numbers and what you could articulate when it comes to your experiences in firm metrics. Saying, for example, if you want to do a call center, I called 100 people within a one-month span and I was able to get three to four sales off of that. That's something that the recruiter kind of kind of equate to, to the hiring manager. So he or she could have a better understanding of what Yeah. That, you know, the metrics advice is really great. Um, and that's something I've heard a lot and I've found that it's re it can be really tough to come up with those metrics, you know, to come up with something that you feel like is going to, you know, look good to a recruiter. And that's sort of a tip I actually have that I thought about a few. to be keeping up with some of those metrics as you go, even when you have a full-time job, document the things that you're doing because later on that can really come back and be helpful. I think it's easy in the moment to think, well, who cares? I'm not really, what difference does it make? But I think that doing that where you can, if it's something that's really impressive, that you're really proud of, write that down somewhere so Treat yourself as a business. Treat your personal self, your personal brand, everyone has a personal brand as a business. You want to keep that information down for the future either if you want to push to get a raise and show how somewhere else. Yeah. The raise and promotion aspect is actually a great example of, you know, why you should be doing that and how you can use it even in the shorter term, you know, when you, when you're not looking for something else, um, to, you know, achieve that. I mean, that's great. I think we hear a lot about, you know, your personal brand quote unquote. Yeah. or to get to be like an eye rolly kind of phrase, but it's really true. You know, it's really true in this day and age. I mean, your social and your online presence is everything for you, you know, and we talk a lot about how, you know, you don't want to post the wrong things, post offensive things and bad things that are going to show someone who we don't want to work with, with this person. Yeah. But especially on LinkedIn or Facebook. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think it's equally important to, you know, pushing that the other way to, to try and put yourself out there to some extent. And I know I'm the first to admit this is actually really hard for me. That's kind of one reason I'm doing this show from a personal aspect is to sort of push myself out there again and kind of build my confidence in content creation. and stopped and I've focused now on content creation for, for work, you know, and it's, it can be hard to get into that flow from a personal angle of, Oh, I'm going to create content for me. That's about me. And that benefits me rather than It's really tough. Really, really tough. What do you think is the biggest mistake you see candidates making in the hiring process? So, you know, is it their things on their resume, the way they're interviewing, things like that? Like, is there one certain thing that you're seeing a lot as far as mistakes go that you could give some advice to people on, you know, Hey, look out for this Yeah, I could think about a few. So one main thing I'm seeing talking about these ATS bots. So basically, what is an ATS? An ATS is Applicant Tracking System. It's basically, think about an electronic filing cabinet where recruiters and HR and talent position specialists puts all their resumes in one and they go through different resumes. Now some have very robust ATS systems like you know Google and Microsoft and whatnot but the majority of the roles that you're probably applying to you know it's a simple ATS just keeps in one place you have to answer some few questions through that application process and then go through there. So you got to keep in mind of what how are you answering those questions not. I'm not sure, depending on what the role you're applying to or whatnot. So you got to really look at that job description and say to yourself, is this really for me? Can I speak on A, B, and C with my experiences and go from there? That also goes into the application in general. If you're applying to a role that's been posted, let's just say, a month ago, you're going to see a lot of applications there. So that's why it's good to kind of search for the most recent roles within that first 24 hours and apply to them. You'll be the first one on the list, and then you go from there. You can also take initiative and like, of course, go to LinkedIn comments on their posts, make it look visible. Don't post, hey, I applied to your role, get me. No, you got to add value to the post and, you know, be upfront about your skills and stuff in your own personal posts to show how knowledgeable you are. So you got to kind of bring people to you. It's a different game now and, you know, you got to think outside the box when it comes to recruiting. you apply and just apply it now in 100%. Yeah. And I think, I mean, here again, I think that gets back to your personal brand talking about, you know, putting yourself out there. You know, if you're regularly posting on LinkedIn and on social in a way that is showing what you know about your job and what you're capable of doing and what you can do and you sort, even if you're not really trying to become, you know, a top voice or anything like that. Um, that's everything because then, you know, a recruiter can go to your page and sort of see your posts and see that you know what you're talking about and, you know, for me over the past week, I actually decided to create a website for myself, which I also think is a great idea and really focusing in on, you know, what I've done instead of where I've worked, focusing on like the games I've shipped, the things that I. all kinds of different information, just letting, letting recruiters know, Hey, I know all the different facets of this role and I can do it Yeah. I tell people you have two, maybe even three plus resumes, your paper, one LinkedIn. And then if you have a website like yourself, that's good. If you have a YouTube. So it's all those things kind of pulling it together, which once again, gets to that personal branding side of things when it comes to the website is great. And I really would anybody listening, if you haven't yet get on, get online, find a, find a, you know, a cheap, most websites, they're actually really cheap for just the, you know, like square space. Yeah. And I use Wix, um, and they're, they're, they're all really good. And you can get those for less than $20 a month. Uh, which, which I know can be, you know, expensive, especially when you're, you know, you don't have a job currently, there's no money coming in, but I really think it's worth it. And I really do think, I really believe deep down that as I'm getting mine updated and it's finished and I get it out there, I really believe I have a good feeling that it's going to help me, you know, generate more. So of course, listeners, I will keep you guys posted on And you can just put it on your LinkedIn, have it straight to the website and And it gives you more space to, you know, it, it lets you sort of lay out how you want to talk about these roles and these things that you've done in the past and then your skills and stuff like that. And in a really easy hope, you know, keep it easy. from a user perspective, but yeah, you know, it just gives you a little more space than, you know, LinkedIn or a social profile might. So, um, so, you know, putting together this list of questions, uh, reminded me of, you know, when you're having an interview, the biggest piece of advice everyone says about an interview is make sure you ask some questions yourself, right? Um, yes. So as a recruiter, how important is that for candidates to come prepared with a few of their own questions? And you know, what is one question that someone could ask you as a Wow. So a very good question. So it's very important to have questions towards the end because a, it shows your interest in the role and B, it shows that you're paying attention. Yeah. Right. So when it comes to me, um, oftentimes I like, that's a good question. I do like it when the person kind of goes online, see what the company is currently doing, what they did in the past, and kind of have a question around that. So let's just say the company posts, hey, we made X amount of sales in this quarter, and we partnered with a certain brand, let's just say Microsoft, and things are going well. You can kind of come to the interview saying, hey, I know you guys work for Microsoft, that's really awesome that you got that big deal and things like that. Don't kind of get, don't make the question too pushy as in like you're kind of like searching for something on their side make it frame it in a way where you're like you want to learn more about the company and plus you don't you know you don't want to push any buttons oh, I'm just reaching for this just to get any information, frame it in a way where you're saying, hey, I'm interested in what you guys are doing. I have a question about how you're working with Microsoft and how can this role, in particularly, play a role to furthering on you guys' profit, something like that, make it more keen. Or if you want to get more personal and see the other person's point of view, a nice classic question is, what's your experience with this company and how long I think that last one is really, that's one that I do always ask. And it's like you said, it's sort of a classic go-to for everybody. It's not like it's a, Oh wow, out of left field, this guy thought of this amazing question, how impressive. But it's for me, it's really great about getting a sense of the culture at the company that you're interviewing with without having to say, you know, tell me about the company culture, which I'm sure recruiters. Only do you sort of knock the culture question out with that one. But yeah, also it's great to get that, you know, that one to one view of sort of how they view the company, the person that you're talking to and what they like, or they're, they're probably not going to tell you what they dislike at that stage, but you know, you may be, you may be able to get a sense of that. You never know. You could check their, check their mannerisms, check their eye contact. and things like that. And it's a good way to kind of open up to the person because oftentimes if you ask them like that, they'd be like, wow, this person actually wants to, when I meet the person, I meet the recruiter says, wow, this person actually wants to learn more about me. And my experience is how the company is. I've been here about 10 years, so I could give them more of a senior. And then kind of go from there. So it's really good to kind of break the ice. So as we're recording this, it's early August right now in 2024. And we just last week saw a couple of really big high profile waves of layoffs. So we saw Bungie layoff 220 people. And then we saw Game Informer actually just shut down. Entire operation is shut down, which is really sad. The site has been taken down. Now it looks like as of today, the Twitter account was taken down. So it's really crazy what's happening there. I mean, what's your sense of just the the situation in the game industry right now and kind of, you know, what are you seeing there? Honestly, I hate it. It's it's it's my hobby. It's what I love. It's something I've been doing since I was a kid. These awesome companies get turned down, shut off, and people out of work. Bungie, I played Halo 2 back in the day. Those were some good times. Game Informer, I recently went to a GameStop. I picked one up, went through the page, and I said, wow, I used to pick up I have a whole stack of them. I've got a whole stack of them in the But it shows that the gaming industry is in a little bit of a turmoil when it comes to certain things, especially big, big companies that have a big, huge budget, huge marketing budget, and things like that, huge executives that oftentimes, they're not so close to the work. They don't really understand what's going on there, and they just make decisions off of that. And it's it's really scary. You're starting to see some indie studios kind of blossom in a way because of this and smaller studios kind of blossom. So I'm really seeing that a lot in the gaming space. And even some unions has The union, the union part is wild because I saw that the other day. It looks like the first two that I've been made aware of here, you know, just through the media that I've been seeing is I think it was Bethesda and maybe Activision Blizzard. Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's crazy that there are there's unionizing happening in those two organizations. So I kind of feel like that has to be encouraging to to some degree. But yeah, I agree with, you know, everything you said there. I mean, we're going to have to you know, we as an industry is as players in the industry, so to speak. We've got to figure out sort of where we go from here, because The big AAA approach is, you're right, it's definitely suffering. And I do think that, you know, like you mentioned about indie studios beginning to flourish, I think that's a big silver lining here. I think we are gonna see more of those indie studios taking next steps to grow. Great. And then I know for my part, I'm, you know, as you need to look, I'm, you know, getting into consulting and doing some things like that as well. So I foresee a lot of people doing some things like that as well. And I think that would be really good. That's going to really, yeah, really kind of liven up the industry in different ways. And, uh, I'm excited to kind of see where things go, but yeah, right now it's just, it's really tough out there. It's It is. It is insane, not only in the gaming space, but everywhere else So it's just a world. That's true. It's really not. It's not just us. Well, Dylan, so what's the best way for everybody to get in touch with you? You mentioned your website earlier, you know, kind of tell us. Personal Yeah, so I'm I've been doing this for at least a couple of years, like about a year right now. year and a half when it comes to really focusing in on my personal branding. So I'm on LinkedIn a lot. Today I just started, um, you know, a test for myself. We're going to start posting at least three times a week. Cool. Then from there, once I kind of wrap that up, you want to start making more YouTube content and, um, you know, maybe a live stream kind of thing, kind of going through people's LinkedIn profiles, they submit their, you know, information. back Yeah, that's, that's a really cool idea. I love that. Listen, I, we've had a few minutes here to chat and I feel like I could go on for another, I could go on for hours, man. This has been really great. Thank you so much. I'll, I'll plan to have you back on again soon and we can kind of extrapolate out some of the, you know, resume tips and interviewing tips and you know, just some things like that. Focus more on some of that stuff. But yeah, All right. All right, everybody, that's going to do it for episode two of the Game Industry Job Hunt podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Really appreciate it. Also, thank you to my guest this week, Dellen Lee of Dellen Digital. You can check out his website at dellen-digital.squarespace.com. You learn more about me and this show at gameindustryjobhunt.com. There are links there to subscribe to the show, to follow me and the show on LinkedIn and Twitter, so make sure to check those out, as well as our resources page that just has all kinds of great stuff.